Extermination - with new link

In comments and in pundit opinion pieces around the internet, I hear the call to wipe out Hizbullah, using whatever means it takes, and regardless of the toll on civilians and infrastructure.

Stephen Frug analyzes The Problem with Disproportionate Responses.

Jonathan Edelstein discusses why international law matters.

Juan Cole resorts to bitter satire.

I resorted to some bitter satire myself in comments somewhere, just now, and I asked to have it stricken from the record. I cannot use the language of hatred even in an attempt to expose that language as injust. It poisons me. I do not want to let the poison of war bring me down to the level of those who promote it.

Those of you who are so eager to use force without thought or diplomacy, those of you who are so happy to see Arabs die, need to ask yourselves what is happening to your own character. Think of the golden rule and apply it.

Update 4:05 pm PST: Stephen Frug rounds up the response to Dershowitz and company - excellent reading if you want proof that humanity is not yet totally insane.

Favorite quote, from Kung Fu Monkey:

That someone could make the argument that the last, the very last standard in war that we hold in these broken times -- that any and all civilian casualties are to be universally condemned -- that someone could lawyer away that last vestige of human sacredness without puking on himself with disgust frankly stuns me.

Comments

[John Stuart Mills]

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.
John Stuart Mill

[M. Simon]

I can tell you what Hizbollah has in store for Israel (and as a side effect Lebanon):

The Doves of Hizbollah.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3280747,00.html

Hossein Safiadeen also reinforced earlier threats by Hizbullah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah to widen the scope of attacks, which have included unprecedented missile strikes deep into northern Israel.

"We are going to make Israel not safe for Israelis. There will be no place they are safe," Safiadeen told a conference that included the Tehran-based representative of the Palestinian group Hamas and the ambassadors from Lebanon, Syria and the Palestinian Authority.

"You will see a new Middle East in the way of Hizbullah and Islam, not in the way of Rice and Israel."

[M. Simon]

Do unto others?

Well then rocket attacks on Lebanon are in order no?

Perhaps the Israelis ought to stick to guided bombs rather than unguided rockets. That way if you stay away from the hizzies you will be safer.

[adam]

Dove, that's because Iran and Syria is willing to fight to the last Lebanese.

You're a smart woman with good recipes. (I like the baked kibbeh recipe especially!)

Why don't you tell us why Hizb'ALLAH isn't willing to move it's weapons from the border area?

Lebanese parliament speaker rejects Rice proposals
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
BEIRUT, Lebanon

Lebanon's parliament speaker, Hizbullah's de facto negotiator, rejected proposals brought by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Monday, insisting a cease-fire must precede any talks about resolving Hizbullah's presence in the south, an official close to the speaker said.

Rice's talks with Prime Minister Fuad Saniora also appeared to have been tense. Saniora told Rice that Israel's bombardment was taking his country "backwards 50 years" and also called for a "swift cease-fire," the prime minister's office said.

An official close to parliament speaker Nabi Berri said his talks with Rice "reached agreement because Rice insisted on one full package to end the fighting."

The package included a cease-fire, simultaneous with the deployment of the Lebanese army and an international force in south Lebanon and the removal of Hizbullah weapons from a buffer zone extending 30 kilometers from the Israeli border, said the official. He spoke on condition of anonymity because the talks were private.

Berri rejected the package, proposing instead a two-phased plan. First would come a cease-fire and negotiations for a prisoner swap. Then an inter-Lebanese dialogue would work out a solution to the situation in south Lebanon.

[adam]

Why are Lebanese civillians dying, Dove?

Even the UN gets it. Take off your blinders and see.

Hizballah hides behind women and children as they do Iran's dirty work.

If you love Lebanon, then condemn Hizballah, Iran, and Syria!

U.N. Chief Accuses Hezbollah of 'Cowardly Blending' Among Refugees
Monday, July 24, 2006
(snip)
"Consistently, from the Hezbollah heartland, my message was that Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending ... among women and children," he said. "I heard they were proud because they lost very few fighters and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don't think anyone should be proud of having many more children and women dead than armed men."

"We need a cessation of hostilities because this is a war where civilians are paying the price," said Egeland, who was heading to Israel.

[lynne wooldridge]

Dove, first of all, I want to say that I hope that you and your family are safe. This conflict is terrible for the good people in Lebanon and for the good people in Israel. I have no answers or solutions to this problem. I was just a few weeks ago so hopeful that a peaceful period would be beginning in the region, and I believe that many shared that hope. I blame primarily those who use terror to further their cause. Nothing good can come from these murderous tactics---only an increase in violence and good people trapped in the middle of it. Peace and friendship among the diverse people in the Middle East can only occur after a period of quiet without violence so that talks and negotiations (and compromises) can take place. This cannot happen in a period of war or violence when fear and suspicion are factors. I don't believe that the Israelis are the enemies of the good people in Lebanon---violence and intolerance are the root cause of this conflict. I hope that a cease fire will soon be declared and that steps toward reconciliation and peace can be taken. A time of healing is needed. Stay safe. Lynne from Texas
Thank you for sharing your recipes; I am looking forward to trying them :)

[Joop]

I am opposed to the Israeli defensive action in Lebanon. I am also opposed to Syria & Iran's use of its proxy Hizbollah army in the very blatant attempt to undermine lebanon and allow Syria to reannex Lebanon. However, I am also not naive and realize that a great many of the casualties are a direct result of the Hizbollah army placing its rocket launchers, arms caches and troops purposely in civilian areas. This speaks to the mentality of those that have attacked Israel. The U.N. humanitarian chief described Hezbollah's tactics of "cowardly blending" in among Lebanese civilians and causing the deaths of hundreds during two weeks of cross-border violence with Israel. He went on further to state; "I heard they were proud because they lost very few fighters and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don't think anyone should be proud of having many more children and women dead than armed men."

Yes war is awful. Even easier for me to say because I am not in the middle of it or suffering. But I also appreciate that Israel must be taking significant care and risk if the number of civilian casualties is this low. When I served in Bosnia, 300 was what we could see in a day or so.

Israel is not intentionally targeting civilians. Hizbollah is, both in Israel where it sends its rockets, and in Lebanon where it hides.

Considering the fact that Lebanon refused all attempts at armistices and peace treaties since 1949, I guess this is what happens when an official state of war still exists. The Lebanese should have opted for peace long ago.

[plenilunio]

ive found this post and discussion regarding this criminal acts also interesting, enlightening if i may,

http://unspeak.net/disproportionate/

(and one feels poorly human using this word, interesting, with such a situation taking place. from south america, mercorsur, uruguay, we ask firmly for an inmediate cease fire and a fast UN humanitarian action.

stop the killing, the destruction, the horror. now.)

[crosspatch]

From the AP

But a day after criticizing Israel for “disproportionate” strikes against civilians, U.N. humanitarian chief Jan Egeland accused Hezbollah of “cowardly blending” among Lebanese civilians.

“Consistently, from the Hezbollah heartland, my message was that Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending … among women and children,” Egeland said. “I heard they were proud because they lost very few fighters and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don’t think anyone should be proud of having many more children and women dead than armed men.”

[Poul]

Hizbullah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah: I Told Lebanese Political Leaders We Would Abduct Israeli Soldiers
http://www.memri.org/bin/opener_latest.cgi?ID=SD121106

hmmm...

[FurGaia]

Hi Dove! I also blogged on this issue. I was dumbfounded and filled with an immense sadness that such comments could be made, thought even, by another human being. Here: http://thecylinder.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/alan-dershowitzs-speciousness/

P.S. I hope your dad is not doing too badly.

[Leila]

FurGaia, thanks, my dad is fine for right now, feeling positive today at all the love and support. He's determined to fight this and outlive the doctor's prediction. He's tired and rests a lot. My kids went over there without me for supper, their usual Monday activity, and he delighted in them. So all is well, today.

[TonyGuitar]

Understandable that Iran and Hezbollah are desperate at this time.

Soon, all our cars and highway transportation will default to battery electric.

That means a 90% drop in oil revenues for Iran and so little room in the budget for nuclear programs.

Now or never eh? = TG